Bob Knakal on Selling Buildings, the Future of CRE, and Owning the Streets of NYC | EP193

Bob Knakal is a legendary figure in New York commercial real estate, known for his data-driven territory model, massive deal volume, and unapologetically old-school work ethic. As the founder of Massey Knakal Realty Services (sold for $100M) and now Chairman at BKREA, Bob has shaped both the skyline of NYC and the next generation of real estate professionals.

In this episode, Bob shares how 40 years of fieldwork, 22 boxes of newsletters, and a pandemic walking tour of Manhattan became the foundation of his modern marketing machine. He talks about launching The Bob Knakal Show, staying true to core values while adapting to AI, and how being “out there” isn’t about ego—it’s about client outcomes.

You’ll hear Bob’s brutally honest take on what it takes to succeed in sales, why cold calling still matters, the power of content in real estate, and how office-to-residential conversions are reshaping the NYC market. This conversation is packed with timeless lessons on resilience, relevance, and why liking what you do still beats any business plan.

Inside This Episode with Bob Knakal:

• How Bob turned mistakes and cold calls into a $100M business sale
  
• Why content creation is the modern version of “pounding the pavement”
  
• The ROI of podcasting, newsletters, and putting yourself out there
  
• A deep dive on NYC’s office-to-residential conversion wave and 467M tax program
  
• What young professionals really need to learn (hint: not just Excel)
  
• Why Bob started his own show—and why your legacy matters
  
• Lessons in grit, luck, leadership, and working through adversity

Chapters

[00:00:00] Introduction and Early Career Insights
[00:00:43] Bob Knakal’s Life-Changing Advice
[00:01:41] Writing the Book: Selling Buildings
[00:05:17] Reading, Learning, and Staying Sharp
[00:08:44] Is College Still Worth It?
[00:15:22] Market Presence and Content Creation
[00:19:46] Adapting to Change: Tech and Tactics
[00:25:30] The Relentless Work Ethic
[00:26:58] Finding Passion in Work
[00:27:36] Resilience Through Adversity
[00:30:43] Commercial Real Estate Market Changes
[00:34:26] Office to Residential Conversions
[00:39:35] Commitment to New York City
[00:42:46] The Map Room Success
[00:46:58] Launching The Bob Knakal Show
[00:50:24] Inspiring the Next Gen
[00:54:04] Wrap Up & Final Words

Bob Knakal

Website
His Book
His Show
BKREA
LinkedIn

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Entrepreneur Perspectives is produced by QuietLoud Studios — a modern media network and a KazSource brand.

Get in touch with Eric Kasimov:
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Credits:
Music by Jess & Ricky: SoundCloud

Entrepreneur Perspectives – Guest: Bob Knakal – Company: BKREA – Host: Eric Kasimov

[00:00–06:00]
From Summer Job to Real Estate
Bob Knakal’s Origin story, book purpose, early lessons.

[00:00:00] Bob Knakal: I had my summer job, loved it. And I was like, wow, that’s really interesting. And then my first semester, sophomore year, I’m taking an entrepreneurial management class. We have a guest speaker and the guy comes in and he says, I was sitting right where you guys are all sitting. And I was sitting there 20 years ago, and I wanted nothing more than to be an investment banker.
[00:00:22] And I know probably most of you want that too. Let me tell you something. I sell dog food for a living and I’m the happiest guy I know.
[00:00:44] Eric Kasimov: Entrepreneur Perspectives is produced by Quiet Loud Studios, a production company, and content network. Learn more@quietloudstudios.com. I have to tell you, Bob, this book. I don’t know how you thought about it when you started writing the book. Obviously it’s for commercial real estate, it’s for people in the [00:01:00] business.
[00:01:00] I think it’s for any industry. It’s inspired me like just reading about prospecting and you showing up like you’re everywhere, right? You’re on all these podcasts, like a podcast dynamo. Like I can learn so much about you. Obviously, you know, we work together, so I’ve learned a lot about you for that, but you get to other layers of it through podcasts and then through long form conversation.
[00:01:24] And just seeing how you were doing things in the eighties and ongoing and going through all the different, I think the book’s really great for honestly, anybody in any industry. But like, anyway, going back to the early part, you got into real estate in college or was this like fully focused on commercial real estate, were you thinking about it for anybody?
[00:01:40] Bob Knakal: Yeah. Well, Eric, you know, great to be with you today. Book came together ’cause I had written a blog for the New York Observer. I did a hundred of these things ’cause I’ve expanded it since then.
[00:02:18] And the thing that struck me when I finished and I read the whole thing, there were so many of these life lessons and business lessons about like how you treat people, the way you behave, the way you interact with people, things like that.
[00:02:56] That’s way beyond being a real estate broker and [00:03:00] selling buildings in New York City. So when I put the book together, yeah, there are a lot of stories in there about what we did at the companies, but it’s more about the lessons, right? I wanted to highlight that here’s the stuff that we did, here’s why we did it.
[00:03:25] Here’s what worked well, here’s what didn’t work well. And years later, I realized a lot of the things that we did could have been done a lot better if I had asked more people for advice. Early on, like I didn’t reach out to senior people and ask for advice. And if I had, we would have made fewer mistakes.
[00:03:47] So the idea of the book was to maybe help some younger people or people in other industries say, hey, here are the mistakes that we made. Here’s what we learned. Here’s how you can avoid some of those mistakes.
[00:04:09] Eric Kasimov: It’s so funny you say that because I think reading the book and then hearing you talk, I feel like I’m reading like a playbook. I get all the stories, but I also get the tactics. And it’s like, all right, cool. Now I can go apply some of this to my business, not just in real estate.
[00:04:29] And I think that’s why I said it’s not just for commercial real estate, it’s for any industry. And I loved seeing like how you put those chapters together. When you were putting it together, were you thinking, hey, I’m writing this for real estate folks? Or were you thinking like the life lesson thing?
[00:04:47] Bob Knakal: It was definitely the latter. I think there are universal truths about business and human nature that apply no matter what you do. And that’s really what I wanted to get across.
[00:05:10] You know, there’s things about likability and credibility and reliability that apply everywhere. There’s things about showing up and persistence. That applies everywhere. And so the stories are in a commercial real estate context, but the lessons are universal.
[00:05:33] Eric Kasimov: Yeah, I appreciate you putting it together that way. And like you said, even when you talk about likability and reliability, those aren’t just sales words. Those are life words. So that’s awesome. All right, so go back to the early part, you got into real estate in college?

[06:00–12:00]
Curiosity, Reading, and Likability
Books that shaped sales craft and relationships.

[00:06:01] Bob Knakal: Yeah. So the, um, my professor brought this guy into class. He says, I sell dog food for a living. I’m the happiest guy I know. And I remember thinking, man, I really hope that I find something in life that I like so much that I could be the happiest guy I know. And I knew nothing about real estate, knew nothing about sales. I never thought about it, but I had this summer job and loved it.
[00:06:27] And so I was in that class and had the summer job and I thought, you know what, I’m just going to do this. And so I started in the summer after sophomore year working for a guy named Jack McGrath, who was a top broker at CB at the time. And that was in 1981. And then after the summer, I kept working part time and I was working part time during the school year, full time during the summer.
[00:06:48] And then in 1984, Jack left to start his own company and I went with him. And in 1988, Jack retired and I bought the company from him and that was the start of my own firm.
[00:07:08] Eric Kasimov: That’s the start of your own firm.
[00:07:10] Bob Knakal: Yeah, that was the start. And, uh, and the rest is history. And you know, it’s, it’s interesting when you talk about likability and these types of things. I didn’t read a business book until I was like 15 years into my career.
[00:07:28] And then I picked up Harvey Mackay’s book, Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive. And I was like, wow, this is great. And then Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. And that book is like, just unbelievable. And it’s like, okay, now I get it. It’s not about being slick. It’s about actually being a good person and being likable.
[00:07:54] And there’s techniques you can use to be more likable. And it’s not a fake thing. It’s like being curious about other people, remembering names, following up, being consistent, being reliable. Like those are the things that matter.
[00:08:18] And I think sometimes people think, oh, you need to be super intelligent or you need to have a fancy degree. And I’m like, no, likeability and work ethic and consistency. Those are the things that, in my business and I think in most businesses, carry the day.
[00:08:41] Eric Kasimov: So to that point then, do you think college matters? Like does the degree itself matter as much as some of those other traits?
[00:08:52] Bob Knakal: Look, I think education is great. I’m a big believer in education. But I’ve hired people without college degrees who are phenomenal. And I’ve hired Ivy League grads who didn’t work out.
[00:09:12] And the differentiator wasn’t the credential. It was the person. Are they likable? Do they show up? Are they curious? Do they do what they say? Do they learn? Do they ask good questions? Do they treat people well? That’s what matters.
[00:09:30] And I remember a guy who had no degree who was just an unbelievable producer because he was so good with people. And I had people with unbelievable resumes who couldn’t connect. So yeah, college can be helpful, but it’s not a guarantee of anything.

[12:00–18:00]
Keep an Open Mind on Careers
Choosing passion over prestige and path shifts.

[00:12:03] Bob Knakal: So for me, it’s like keep an open mind. I didn’t say, hey, I’m going to be in real estate when I was 10 years old. I stumbled into it. And I was in that class and I had that job and I listened to that guy talk about dog food and happiness and I thought, I want that.
[00:12:24] And I think a lot of kids today think they need to have the path laid out. And I’m like, no, go try things. See what you actually like doing. Because when you find something you love, it’s not work. It becomes this thing you get to do.
[00:12:44] Eric Kasimov: And it’s obvious you love it. You’ve been doing this a long time and you’re still as energized as anyone I know. Which probably ties to the next part, which is presence. Like you showing up on podcasts, doing media—how intentional was that for you?
[00:13:05] Bob Knakal: Very. I always believed in being present in the marketplace. We did mailings, we did newsletters, we did seminars, we spoke at events. And today it’s podcasts, it’s social media, it’s long form. It’s the same principle: be out there providing value, telling your story, being findable.
[00:13:28] We used to rely on the phone and the office door. Now it’s your website, your SEO, your content footprint. It’s not about being flashy; it’s about being present and useful.
[00:13:47] Eric Kasimov: Yeah, and I’ve seen you talk about ROI a little differently—like return on involvement.
[00:13:55] Bob Knakal: Exactly. Return on involvement. If you show up and you get involved—industry groups, community, media—the opportunities compound. I’ve had some of the biggest deals of my career come from things you might have thought were “low ROI” at the time, like a talk or a podcast. You can’t always attribute it cleanly, but the involvement matters.

[18:00–24:00]
Content, SEO, and Discoverability
Adapting to media, social, and AI search.

[00:18:06] Eric Kasimov: And then the media side of it—your evolution. Newsletters to websites to social to now even being found in tools like Perplexity. How do you think about that?
[00:18:18] Bob Knakal: You have to evolve. We built a website with a lot of substance so if you land there, it’s a resource. We think about SEO. We post consistently. We repurpose. And now, yeah, these AI tools are crawling everything. So if you’re not creating, you’re invisible in those ecosystems too.
[00:18:40] The other thing is, I still believe in face-to-face and phone, especially to start a relationship. Email and text is great once there’s context. But to begin, pick up the phone. Meet in person. That’s where you build trust.
[00:19:04] Eric Kasimov: It’s refreshing to hear that because it feels like people hide behind a screen. But the human connection is still the edge. Which leads to the other side of all this: the grind. You’ve talked about luck, but also about perseverance.
[00:19:20] Bob Knakal: Yeah, look, I love what I do. I don’t plan on retiring. And it’s not because I need to work—it’s because I love the work. And there have been tough periods, personally and economically. Everyone sees the highlight reel. They don’t see the years where you’re carrying balances on credit cards while you’re building something.
[00:19:44] But if you keep showing up, keep believing, and keep learning, the compounding shows up. And a lot of what people call luck is really just a byproduct of being in motion for a long time.

[24:00–30:00]
Direct Communication and Grit
Calls, meetings, and perseverance through setbacks.

[00:24:04] Eric Kasimov: When you talk about not retiring and the love of the business—it resonates. And also the willingness to do the non-scalable things: call, meet, walk the blocks. It’s not glamorous, but it’s the game.
[00:24:23] Bob Knakal: Completely. We used to literally walk every block of Manhattan. That’s how the “map room” even came to be. You learn neighborhoods, you meet owners, you see the assets. There’s no substitute.
[00:24:41] And even in the era of social, you can’t automate certain conversations. You can augment, sure. But there are points where you must pick up the phone, make the ask, handle the objections, and keep going.
[00:25:02] Eric Kasimov: And your story includes setbacks, too—market crashes, personal stuff, all of it.
[00:25:12] Bob Knakal: Many. But again, you get up and go. You keep your ethics, you do the right thing by clients, you treat people well, and you stay in the game. That’s the formula.

[30:00–36:00]
NYC Market & Office Conversions
Sector split, tax abatements, conversions to housing.

[00:30:20] Bob Knakal: Today’s market is so interesting because different sectors are doing very different things. Multifamily is doing X, retail is doing Y, office is in its own universe. You’re seeing a lot of talk about conversions—office to residential—because the housing shortage is real.
[00:30:44] The big lever is policy. Tax abatements matter. When the incentives line up, deals pencil. Without them, it’s very hard. And we’ve seen in New York that when you put 421-a or similar programs in place, you actually get supply. When you pull them, supply dries up.
[00:31:13] So a lot of the future of conversions is about getting those policy pieces right. There’s an enormous stock of obsolete office that could be housing with the right framework. And that helps the city on many fronts.

[36:00–42:00]
Policy, Politics, and Affordability
Rent rules, incentives, and New York’s future.

[00:36:04] Bob Knakal: Politics is a huge variable. Rent regulation changes have dramatic effects on asset values and on housing supply. Some policies were intended to help tenants short term but ended up freezing investment and reducing long-term supply.
[00:36:30] We need a balance—protecting people while also allowing for investment and development. If you want more housing and better affordability, you have to create conditions where people build and maintain housing. That’s incentives, predictability, and efficient approvals.
[00:37:02] Eric Kasimov: And New York specifically—how do you feel about where it’s headed?
[00:37:12] Bob Knakal: I’m bullish long term. It’s an extraordinary city. But we have to be thoughtful with policy. Crime, regulation, taxes—those matter. If you get them right, New York thrives. If not, you hamper what makes the city great.

[42:00–48:00]
The Bob Knakal Map Room Edge & Playbook Shifts
Walking Manhattan, pitch wins, signs, co-brokerage.

[00:39:33] Eric Kasimov: Yeah, yeah. I see that. Have you looked at other places? Other cities and whatnot. Are you actively doing business there?
[00:39:49] Do you consider it? Do you think about it? What does that look like?
[00:39:51] Bob Knakal: Yeah, no. You know, I, that was, you’re touching a hot button with me because for 35 years, I said, I’m only working in New York. And the reason for that is because we had this geographic specialization. We would take a broker and put them in a neighborhood, let them become market experts in that neighborhood.
[00:40:09] And when we filled up all the territories in Manhattan, we went to the outer boroughs. And we said, okay, now we’re going to open up an office in Brooklyn and let’s go work in in the Bronx.
[00:40:29] And we did this long before it was cool to go to the boroughs. We were there first. We were the idiots walking around long before it was cool. But when it became cool, we were already there. And we had boots on the ground and established relationships long before it became cool.
[00:40:49] And then when we filled up all the territories in New York City, we said, hey, should we go to other cities? And we realized if we go to Chicago, we’re gonna have to explain who we are and what we can do.
[00:41:13] And we had, uh, relationships with clients that were doing deals in other cities, particularly in Florida, Texas, Tennessee.
[00:41:38] If you look at where all the action was, it was in the no income tax states and the states with high state income tax had the reverse. [00:42:00] But I wasn’t tempted.
[00:42:00] The “map room” came from the same philosophy—depth over breadth. We literally walked every block and built this massive, physical map of every parcel. When we pitch in that room, the close rate is off the charts because owners see that we know their asset’s ecosystem block-by-block.
[00:42:27] And by the way, a lot of the things that were atypical when we did them—like putting signs on buildings, co-brokering, sharing information—were about doing what’s best for the seller. Some people hated those moves at first. But the market moved there because it made sense.

[48:00–54:00]
Launching The Bob Knakal Show
Why record wisdom; preserving industry stories.

[00:47:18] Bob Knakal: The podcast came from losing legends in our industry whose wisdom wasn’t captured. I thought, we need to record these stories, these lessons, for the next generation. Not just for real estate people, but for anyone who wants to understand how business really works.
[00:47:40] And I also wanted to show the full arc—not just the big wins, but the years where things were hard. I had long stretches where I was in debt while I was building. People don’t talk about that enough. They should. It helps others navigate their own path.
[00:48:05] Eric Kasimov: It’s powerful when people open up like that. And you’ve got this coaching tree—so many folks who worked with you and now run their own firms.
[00:48:23] Bob Knakal: That’s probably the thing I’m proudest of—seeing people who came through our shop go on to lead and succeed. That’s legacy. That and continuing to show up every day with the same energy and curiosity.

[54:00–54:30]
Debt, Mentorship, and Legacy
Credit cards to success, coaching tree, daily routine.

[00:53:08] There’s a lot going on in that industry. They’re in New York City and beyond, and seeing you continue to put out content, to mentor, to be present—it just keeps compounding.
[00:53:23] We wanna be a part of this. Like I said, we can’t do it all at once, but we can keep taking steps—post, write, go in deeper with LinkedIn and, and podcasts and things like that.
[00:53:36] I mean, it’s amazing you keep doing it. I know you’re up early, you’re on the train to New York City and every day. What time did you get up today?
[00:53:45] Bob Knakal: Well, I get up five o’clock every morning.
[00:53:48] Eric Kasimov: That’s what I saw.
[00:53:48] Bob Knakal: Usually have a cup of coffee. Watch the news in the gym at five 30, work out till about six 15.
[00:53:56] Cool down for for a few minutes, and then shower. [00:54:00] Get to the train and get in to let the action start.
[00:54:03] Eric Kasimov: Yeah, I love it. Well, Bob, I appreciate you being here. This is fantastic. You gave a lot. And I think people will get a lot out of it—about commercial real estate, obviously an incredible industry.
[00:54:13] I’ve known a lot of people who have been in it. Obviously there’s a lot of work involved. But the way you put it, the way you show up, it’s inspiring. And beyond that, the way you think about content and showing up is something I think people could be reading and content to be listening to.
[00:54:30] So, but thank you for again, for everything and always showing up. Thanks for being on. And thanks to everyone listening to Entrepreneur Perspectives, produced by QuietLoud Studios where we create podcasts, writings, and original media. Learn more @ quietloudstudios.com.